Let's discuss iRacing - attempt #2

This is interesting.... I have the exact opposite stance on most of the points you make in this post.

"Interesting comments about iracing FFB. In some ways I prefer it to AC. You can feel the weight of the car a little better. In the ND cup miata, you can really feel the tire scrub/slip angle. In AC, the FFB feels a little simulated to me; you get more information than iracing, but I think iracing is more accurate to what you feel in a real car."

I think you can feel the weight transfer of the car better in AC. You can really feel the suspension load up through corners, which can occasionally be somewhat nebulous in iRacing. I do agree that in iRacing you have a better feel for what the front tires are doing, but not sure that has to do with weight transfer being reflected in the force feedback. I think iRacing gives much more information than AC, but AC gives a better "feel." Agree that iRacing is more accurate to real life, due to AC reflecting lateral weight transfer through FFB (which you'd feel with your body in a real car).

"My main issue with iracing is the physics in many cars. They just don't throttle steer or trail brake like a real car. The weight transfer fore/aft just isn't right for some reason. It's so easy to spin while trail braking. I think AC feels much more like real driving (based on my real life experience with some of the cars in AC). The physics just feel much more natural."

Agree that they don't throttle steer properly. That has to do with the tire model though... rear slip tends to be an on/off switch, there isn't a a gradual progression like there is in real life (or in AC). However, I couldn't disagree more about trail braking. Rotating the cars under braking in iRacing is SO nice, and in AC is more of a pain. In AC, cars tend to under-rotate under braking, and proper trail braking serves to get them to rotate just a normal amount. In iRacing, trail braking serves to get the cars to rotate MORE into the corner, which is how it should be. In AC, I have to move brake bias SO far back from default in order to get the car to rotate even slightly under braking - and even then, the rotation doesn't seem to be as significant as it should be. The brakes should be encouraging the car to rotate better - which is why mastering trail braking is one of the ways that the really fast guys are separated from the sort of fast guys. And, with all due respect, unless you're a professional race car driver, how can you possibly compare iRacing's braking to what you've experienced in real life? iRacing only has race cars, no road cars, so the odds that you've driven any of the cars that they have in-sim is extremely small. You may think AC feels like real life with respect to road cars, but that isn't a comparison you can make to iRacing. Road and race cars drive completely differently, especially when it comes to braking. Road cars have the brake bias way far forwards, whereas race cars have it as far back as possible (with a few exceptions).

 

Just a small interjection here. Stefano, and other people here told me, with vehemence, that AC only transmits forces you would feel in the real steering via FFB. You write now, that there's lateral weight force, which your body feels in the real car, being simulated in the FFB. So, i wonder where you read or heard this, and why i have been called an idiot (well, i wasn't really called an idiot, rather treated like an idiot), for claiming that there is stuff in the FFB which isn't limited to what you actually feel in the steering alone. Hope this can be cleared up.

 

Yikes, I definitely don't agree with Stefano and other people! I feel very strongly that AC is introducing lateral forces in the FFB, outside of the normal forces you'd feel through the steering IRL - I'm not sure if that runs off of suspension load, G forces, or what, but it definitely does not feel like the pure, raw forces you'd get through a steering rack. That's also one of the reasons I think so many people love Assetto - because of the way the FFB is done, you get a better sense for what the car is actually doing, because the forces you'd normally feel in your body you can feel in your hands.

I've read this in a few places and heard it in many YouTube videos, but I don't have any sources on hand to cite for you. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is GamerMuscle, because I just watched one of his videos But generally, I didn't need to read or watch anything to reach this conclusion. It seems rather self-evident to me... no car I've ever driven IRL gives you that feeling of the car being loaded up directly through the steering like in AC.

 

I feel absolutely the same way as you. I frankly don't have the technical means to explain it though. All i can say is that there is a BIG difference in the FFB or AC and iR, for example. And that i feel things in the AC FFB that i can only dream about feeling in the iR FFB.

 

You should try using irFFB! (I feel like I'm saying this a lot lately )

It allows you to introduce telemetry-based force feedback effects, as well as smooth out the native iRacing FFB. But you can add a little bit of suspension load and SoP ("seat of pants"), and you'll feel the car loading up through the steering, which starts feeling much more similar to AC. It adds a ton of feel!

Also, now that I think about it, this is another reason that makes me think AC FFB isn't just what you'd feel through the steering rack IRL. If adding telemetry-based force feedback like suspension load to iRacing makes it feel more like AC, then that would imply that AC is outputting some sort of suspension load feeling as well.

For science!

 

Yeah, i read about iRFFB, but, was always too lazy to install it and set it up. I'll have a go next time i will subscribe to iR. I read it really helps a lot with the feel on consumer wheels. That's the main issue i always had with it, apart from the effect of overheating the tyres, the FFB.

 

Awful review.

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LOL
Yeah, what does he know?

 

All sims reflect "lateral weight transfer" in the FFB. Otherwise you wouldn't feel the FFB getting stronger while you steer.

 

lol

that's a first

 

Who would trust that guy tbh

 

I def agree that you feel weight TRANSFER better in AC. I just think you feel the mass of whatever car you're driving better in iracing. My experience with trailbraking is def different than yours. I wonder if it comes down to different cars. What cars trailbrake well in iracing for you? I find the 991gt3 cup difficult. I either get terminal understeer or snap spin. Hard to modulate. Same in 488GT3. Those are the only cars I've purchased.

 

Next thing you all will be trying to tell me that this Stefano guy created Assetto Corsa!! Duh!! Everyone knows that AC was created by a hyper advanced race of Felis silvestris catus from the future and smuggled through a Stargate back in 2014. hehe

 

Hence my "yikes"

I stand by my point though! (Which doesn't mean I'm right, it just means I'm stubborn)

 

well that's not exactly the word I'd use.. but I know I would get the usual "Kunos doesn't respect customers" so let's settle for stubborn

 

Yep, I agree with him that game should work "out of the box" pretty well, but that goes too far... leaving FFB on default/too high so that it's clipping (?) or otherwise just terrible, doesn't tell much about sim. He should just do normal FFB tweaks that everyone does, before starting. Also, why review mod content. Don't know about that particular mod, but there's some mod cars for AMS that feel terrible and would make AMS look very bad if someone used it on review

 

Haha - I meant no disrespect!

 

I was bitten by the Porsche Cup bug and opened a dedi server for it here in AC. Each day it took few hours sitting in the pit knitting a scarf before it starts to populate and sometimes it doesn't.
So i was very curious how the iracing porsche compares and i resubscribed for a month and went to try it. I went out on the track and my heart sunk. FFB is dead except for the spring effect.
Went to options and clicked reset to defaults which turned off the linear steering. This made all the difference... let's just say that i don't hold my previous opinion toward iracing.
FFB is pretty much spot on for me (T500).
Another thing is braking which feels to me like it has more progression before locking up, compared to somewhat on/off feel in AC.
It could be because of the audio feedback that i get this impression. iR has tender low pitch squeal/scrub sound that pitches up as you progress with your braking and when it locks up you get a distinctive high pitch squeal. Not so noticeable for me in AC. Here it is locked or it is not and it's much harder for me to find the spot in between... doable but not so easy as in iR.
The only thing that is now bothering me in iR is that it's almost impossible to get out of a lazy spin in the porsche cup car. You know, when you see the rear starts to go and you apply full opposite lock but it just keeps slowly going on it's way while you watch helplessly. I NEVER felt this in AC. It's like iR porsche has too low steer lock and it needs a few extra degrees so that the full opposite lock actually does something. It could be realistic because i saw real life races where the porsche cup car would go in a spin that looked like it could be saved without too much issue but spun anyway.
Always full grids and the competition is something i adore in iracing and i fear the upcoming Ai will water it down... a lot. Ai are not a good training tool and makes people drive wrong. IMO ai should be used only to simulate the traffic on public roads

 

Hi all, I managed to go through whole of this thread, probably looking for confirmation that what I feel in iR is not one off and others feel the same. On one hand I am happy that I got the confirmation, on the other - I am quiet envious for the guys who like iRacing and manages to feel something that I don't get. I mean my wheel is completely dead - if I am going through a tight corner and I press gas or brake pedal there is zero change in the force I feel in the wheel, same centering force and nothing else. I am using CSW 2.5 btw. I also tried usin irFFB and in some extent it did help to bring some feeling in the wheel, but when I have enough feeling with it, going fast through curbs and braking hard jolts the wheel very violently. Maybe some of the guys who like iR ffb and even finds it better than AC could suggest some settings for it?
I am not going to talk too much about physics, because honestly I can't feel much, but one thing is for sure - iR does not like any slip while driving. There was this moment where after again trying to find a decent setting there, I went back to AC into SRS race with Evora GX in Imola and without much training I felt like I could start pushing the car more and more. I loved how I could use some braking / liftoff oversteer in Villeneuve chicane to point the car to the right before short straight. It felt so nice and natural in AC and I wondered if it would be even possible in iR? Would it give me an advantage? Would I lose any of it in next corners due to tires instantly on fire? Or would it be way too slow as its hard to slip and not over do it there?
Anyway, there is a lot to like about iRacing - great great sounds, great feel of how chassis reacts to throttle (much more violent than in AC), great MP system.. Also helps that, like Gunja mentioned above, I am the fan of porsche gt3 cup, and they seem to have high attendence in those races.. So yeah, really trying to like it, but ffb and that tire slip thing takes all the joy away of trying to push the car to its limits..

 

That's the official GT3 DLC he's using. Should be on par with the rest. I agree on the rest - FFB tweaks are essential, and he should have done those just as he tweaked R3E graphics when he ran it on his old PC. Out of the box doesn't really work on PC.