Let's discuss iRacing - attempt #2

I heard new tyre model finally has temperature working right. (well right like cold tyres has less grip than warm tyres, not otherway around like it used to). Seems this invention doesn't come free. Other things go bassackwards.

 

I dont get it? You did a scandinavian flick, looks about right

 

Looks like an attempt at firestarting a nasty argument. I see the car getting unsettled on purpose and in the course of the slide reacting differently in both cases. The car might might have oicked up a yaw angle way above the point of no return so steering input doesn't make an awful lot of difference, anymore.

This could be a starting point for further investigation but nothing to base a judgement call upon.

 

I don't get the point of that video. Please, someone tell me what the guy is trying to show.

 

The car seems to turn further into the corner when countersteering instead of straightening out.

 

But that's not wrong.

 

OK, here's what I'm seeing, and I could be wrong of course and am open to an explaination.
First clip, the car is sideways with no pedal input but has (seemingly) finished rotating, then with no further pedal input he countersteers left but the car initially starts rotating right, rotates slower as less steering is applied and faster again with more steering. Seems at least counterintuitive. Shouldn't the car rotate to where the front wheels are pointing from the beginning of the steering input? In the second clip the car just stops rotating by itself without steering input, I have no issue with that.

 

Good catch. It looks very weird indeed.

 

That countersteering does the exact opposite with the new tire model for the Skippy in iRacing: It doesn't straighten the oversteer out, it worsens the oversteer. And that is fundamentally wrong, like the tire model has always been fundamentally wrong in iRacing, see the heating up of the tires, or the reverse effect of cold and warm tires.

The thing is, i don't think anyone would complain if they handed that over as a alpha to testers, and it probably would have quickly been fixed, but, they released this update to the public, in a working online league system, and noone even seemed to have noticed it during development testing. And that's a bit of a shocker really. Especially when you consider the hardbutted defensive attitude of the iR community, who considers iR as the holy grail of simulation.

As far as i read, iRacing's position to this is that the Skippy is a old car, uses old physics, and would have to be reworked from scratch, to get it on par with their newer cars, which is something i understand, of course. Their approach also seems to be different to that of Assetto Corsa, e.g. They obviously don't create a general physics and tire model, and the cars more or less all work the same now. Nonetheless, i feel confirmed in my assessment about iR, once again. A lot of talk about realism, a lot of praise from real life drivers, and a lot of hardliners who will tell you that it is the sim of all sims, and every time i try it, i wonder what those people have been smoking.

The guy in the video is one of the absolute alien drivers in the Skip Barber series in iR, by the way, and also uploaded quite a few videos of him driving in real racing cars. Actually, i drove a couple of times in the same grid with him in iR. So, his opinion and impression is definitely of value. Even though i hardly should mention that, when everyone can see what is going on in that video.

 

Of course that's wrong. Or did you ever countersteer, and the car even turns harder in when you do so? If you still can catch the car, countersteer will straighten it out, and you will catch it again.

 

Apparently you didn't read my last message..

 

Ok, then i understood it wrong. I was under the impression that you didn't think it was wrong (which your first reply suggested), just that it looks weird.

 

Thought i'd revive this thread. With this. Of course, i made this point 4 years ago, but i'm not an indycar driver, so, you know, what do i know?

i actually rejoined iracing recently, was going to do a follow up video to my original hit - the ffb is a lot LOT better with a plugin called irFFB, which dramatically amps up the rear traction loss FFB, so now you can feel the weight transfer in oversteer up to the point where the car loses it.
This makes driving less guesswork and allows me to drive the cars with a lot more confidence.

It also makes the loading up of the front tyre more obvious under braking, there's still no understeer feel or front grip feel at all, but at least you can feel the front locking up more under braking as it begins to load.

The physics are still crap - there's been no fundamental change to the tyre model in the 10 years i've jumped in and out of iracing - its exactly as Newgarden describes below - at least in the 2 cars i only care about in the game, the F3.5 and the F1's.
There is definitely more slip angle available in the F3 dallara for instance, but it is a slow car with a lot of grip/downforce to begin with, probably why its a bit more forgiving in the first place.



vs me in 2016 talking about this very issue, 9m 50s

 

Another one on the same topic:

 

i actually found a fantastic tool for iracing's ffb which goes some way to fixing the issues i was having - the physics are still crap, but at least now i can feel where the crap-level is.
as a result i've had some really intense races with it at the weekend in the FW31, been good so far.