Quality of sim can be measured by how ruthlessly it exposes driver's lack of talent

Not really. It was never about whether or not it was scary. It's whether or not it's too easy. Regardless of fear, the action itself is what matters. If it was (or is) that easy to do IRL, then I'll do it np. Just need a plane ticket and a proper car to give it a go xD

 

Just launched rF2, C6 ZR1 and Sao Paulo and all I can say is.. ..please stop saying AC is something special regarding how easy it is to catch slides at high speeds because that is not true. It is propably even easier in rF2. You can lose the car only if your hands or wheel are slow or you floor the throttle like a total idi0t on slow speed corner. Otherwise, impossibru.

Not familiar enough with iRacing so I cannot comment anything else than the last time I drove it the biggest issue was to push the car enough to make it slide.

 

William, here you caught plenty of mini slides, mostly in the oval part, but also in the fast corners.

For example the one at min 3:00 and 3:20.


When you did it in game at 1:56, you were slowing down from 6th to 5th, so the car got more planted (regained grip). You accelerated a bit after that slow down, so the car lost some rear grip, but just not enough to make it dangerous, and the slide angle of the rear was pretty small, the car was still gripping on the contact patch; then you counter steered to keep it in line. In fact, taking the very inside line of that corner is the desirable thing. Going on the middle-outside you'd have much higher chances of losing the car.

 

Max speed I was sliding at IRL was 120kph or so (left before the corkscrew), more between 70-100kph. On the AC vid I was going 200+ or so, through Schwedenkreuz. Not quite the same.

And by the way, if I wanted to I could have just yolo'ed the angle easily on the AC vid, and it'd still be easy. More or less angle doesn't even matter...

 

So the only basis is the speed, nothing else matters? You're saying the BMW 1M can't hold itself when going at 200kmh+ with a little bit of slide? More so when you braked down from 6th to 5th, then you gave it some throttle and the car slipped a bit, then you counter steered.

 

At that speed in a corner like that (which is off camber btw) it doesn't take much to get snap oversteer. Heck, after the initial slow down and downshift, I just threw the car in there on the kerb (part of the tyres was on the grass btw) to make it turn better. How does that even work in that corner ? The car would have just let go, especially at that speed. At lower speed the tyres don't get as loaded when you get sideways, and there's a lot more time to react and make the proper inputs (however even at 100kph you can get some nasty snap... I can attest to it. Definitely didn't go on my merry way sliding, at that point it was "keep the car straight and don't end up in the wall"). At high speed ? Doesn't take lot before the tyres go "nope" and pendulum takes over, at that point there's not a lot you can do but try and keep it on track. Nevermind riding over a kerb almost full throttle sideways like it's nothing. Here it's like there's a wall keeping the tyres from going any further.

 

Well, so what about rF2?


What about reality?


Now tell me that the KTM on AC doesn't behave exactly in the same way.

 

I always have trouble with youtube videos because you can literally find any kind of video to justify any kind of driving characteristic of any car. Especially topgear....

 

What's your review of William's video where he said is just too easy, as in, you shouldn't be able to perform that action successfully. You can find the videos in the posts above, on this page.

 

It is possible in real life. But not without effort and with 100% success rate like you can do it in ac. To put it bluntly.

 

It really depends on the car, tires, and exact situation. The situations can't be generalized. But as in comparisons to other sims, catching the small slides William caught at 1:56 can also be successfully caught in all modern sims.

I remember a post where you said you can slide infinitely in AC, from what I tried myself, I can't do it.
Is just that I see people categorize as AC too easy to be sim, but then you look at others who's general opinion is that is hardcore driving, but then you come across the following things.

 

Assetto Corsa is easy to recovery from a slide. But, to be fast, you have to be Always on line, not correcting slidings all the time. For me, Assetto Corsa is the most difficult to drive on line, specially in the cars withou diffusers and high downforce.
So its right to say, I think, that AC exposes more the bad driver.

 

The slides recovered in AC pale in comparison to what does that guy with the 911
And do not tell me that at Eau Rouge (0.45) and Pouhon (1.55) he's not recovering fast slides.

 

The point I'm making is that in general in ac it is extremely easy to catch a slide. It doesn't really depend on anything. Very few cars in ac take effort to catch. It is not about whether it is catchable or not. It is about how easy and repeatable it is. There is no challenge. When I compare that to other sims those slides are catchable too. But not 100%. Sometimes I don't get it right. In ac it is very hard to get wrong.

What I meant with that infinite slide was that when you get sideways into accidental power slide there is an angle at which the car just stops rotating more. It just stops and stays there and you can hold your throttle and hold your wheel and the car just keeps going at that 30-45 degree drift as long as you want or until you hit a wall. You can even floor it and the rear won't come around. The slide gets bigger but it won't come around. Even the ffb kinda starts to countersteer when the rear steps out initially and then stops at that angle and then holds that angle for you.

The best way to describe it is to say it is like a drift assist. That's the way it feels to me. I don't think there is a hidden drift assist. I'm not even hinting that such thing exists. I think it is some kind of honest issue with the physics engine. But it feels like drift assist. Just like in one version of nkpro some value got "turned around" and longitudinal slides started adding grip instead of taking grip away. An honest mistake.

To me the issue appeared back when kunos started working on the ffb. Maybe it was the self aligning torque change. But after that every time the ffb has changed the issue has become more noticable for me. 1.2 for me was the best ac physics engine. It was really good. 1.3 there was a clear change, a downgrade. 1.4 it changed again. Everytime it changed this issue became more noticable. But the problem was already there in 1.2. Not very noticable.

It is annoying I don't know what it is causing it.

 

Once again you described exactly how for example rF2 works..

Edit: Actually more accurately 'how every sim title excluding iRacing works'.

 

To be fair, though, William's video shows something that isn't quite the case in many of the other video posts that try to disprove his point:

1. There is a nasty bump just before Schwedenkreuz that forces you to take an approach to the corner that you will be deciding according to your immediate butt feels (sorry)
2. You are basically cresting a gradient mid-apex, which is probably the most dangerous and most exciting type of corners in racing as a whole (IMO). Controlling lock won't be as easy as on a plain surface, not at racing speed.
3. By the time you reach that corner, you are approaching v-max in most cars before slowing down JUST the right amount to not flatten yourself on the armco
4. To me, there's no drifting at Schwedenkreuz, there's just clinging on to dear life and making it a challenge to keep the hammer down for as long as possible. For a little moment there, you don't have a lot of weight on your rear, and you have to straighten the car if need be, just to keep it from spinning the hell out. Yellowbird's another story, that mofo likes going through there with so much angle that you can basically wave at following cars through your side window at 180 kph.

Don't get me wrong, you CAN drift it, but not if you want to drive through it as fast as possible. And in doing so, if you make a mistake there, you're toast. Like, there is a different approach in regards to how you want to take it. You burn some rubber, or you zoom. Switching "modes" once you're in is what gets you killed

 

I only find that 'drift assist' when driving the drift E30. I can floor it and it will stay sideways. Maybe it is set up that way?
On the contrary, there are also many cars where slides are uncatchable.

 

The only cars that are "challenging" to do big slides with are the Merc C9/L97T (cause turbo lag mainly) and the F1 GTR (because it has like 10deg steering lock, lol)

 

this is a lot of arcade¨

 

to people who



we dont need to look no more