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The Best Cockpit View - Single Screen

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by R3jn, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    What? With correct FOV all the distances are equal to real life
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  2. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    It’s then like a window that u can see through and everything there is real size, that effect is just that u feel that everything is small because normally people aren’t used to that kind of FOV and they don’t have that perifiral vision
     
  3. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    So it’s like u are looking through 50mm lense that is like with no zoom compared to human eye, and then that picture printed in real size on your screen or at least what can fit in there being a real size
     
  4. GCCRacer

    GCCRacer Simracer

    Actually, no.

    The photography focal length (on a 35mm full-frame) that comes closest to a "natural" field of view is usually estimated somewhere between 35mm and 55mm. That is a FOV between about 54° and 40°.

    By "zooming in" with a smaller FOV of less than 40°, what you are actually doing is the same optical thing as photographing things trough a telephoto lens - you are shortening the apperance of distance between objects (the youtube video says as much).

    You might be able to get the height (Y axis) and width (x axis) of an object on screen to match it's height and width it would have trough your car window in real life - but then you are impacting the Z Axis because you are actually in a "zoom view".

    For the argument you have been making - that "correct FOV" gives the best depth/distance perception - what you would actually need is a scene rendered at around 50-40° FOV and then scaled up so that the center of it stretches/matches your screen size.

    So, actually, the more I think about it - not only does "correct FOV" (i.e., small FOV on a single screen) take away all the pheripheral clues you would have in real life, it also distorts the perspective like using a telephoto lens in a camera, giving you incorrect depth perception.

    Look at the part here where it says "Photos taken using a 35 mm camera with a 100 mm, a 70 mm, a 50 mm, and a 28 mm lens, at different distances from the subject"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)
     
    buddhatree likes this.
  5. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Wait, sorry, that argument with 50mm lense was stupid OMG what was I thinking, yes saying it’s like that is stupid because it would make picture distorted and zoomed in
     
  6. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    but no it does not distort any distances, that’s the point of having correct FOV
     
  7. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Having FOV bigger is making it distorted, bigger thing is presented on larger screen,
    Camera is in one position and screen in front of u cover certain amount of your 360degs around you, so the ammound of degrees it covers for evample 24” monitor sitting 65 cm from u covers 44.5 deg of your horizontal FOV that is around 26deg of vertical FOV on 16/9 monitor and vFOV is the one that assetto uses
     
  8. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Here is how I seen it with that vFOV of 26, and that calculator visualise well where does it comes from D9387E7D-67DB-4671-9F90-DB6D92D94526.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    LeDude83 likes this.
  9. fnegroni

    fnegroni Racer

    I think you have now hit the issue with true FOV: on a small single monitor you lose a lot of your spatial awareness. I’d go for a less realistic FOV and just adapt my ‘senses’ to it. after all think about those skilled drivers of remote control cars and airplanes (before the advent of onboard cameras). They are able to do amazing manoeuvres and they don’t even have an FOV...
     
  10. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    And the argument goes on, I have already explained how it doesn’t affect your special awareness and in fact it’s even better after that adaptation, yes u can be fast on any FOV but FOV police wants just to show you how easier it is to drive with the correct one, u just need to adapt from that high FOV that everyone is now used to
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  11. dajdosta

    dajdosta Racer

    ??? Totally not true, which should be obvious to everyone
     
    GCCRacer and After_Midnight like this.
  12. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Ah **** here we go again, it appears for everyone and seems obvious that u get vital information with higher FOV, while the truth is that it doesn’t give u any information apart from that something is belong side u, and it does distort the view, people feel secure having that addition vision while all that information can be seen on sth like radar or given u by a spotter or mirror, u don’t drive side by side looking at the car and measuring distance from it to stay as close as possible, u just use the information he is there and knowing your position u give him certain amount of room,
    And judging those distances is easier on correct FOV
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  13. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    3E50B72D-087F-4E2A-9126-B6BC8C1FFF06.png AEB5FB64-92BC-4111-9036-B9C1C76C0054.png
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    If u would want to get a good vision why don’t u use FOV of 180degs then
     
  15. Why don't let people use the FOV of their liking?
    Because even some of your videos says the opposite of your statements here. Especially in terms of spatial and situation awareness.

    There is no need for multi post and walls of text.
    I think we all got your opinion but you'll need to understand not everybody have to agree with it.

    You lost me already at your statement about triple screen setups.
     
  16. buddhatree

    buddhatree Racer


    He does have a point if you have a single monitor like me.

    I will use Lime Rock Park (with chicanes) from rF2 as an example. I was watching a real life race at Lime Rock so I decided to fire up rF2. But I noticed something funky about the first chicane. If I used the "correct FOV" for my distance and monitor, the first chicane is way too shallow, this distances are all messed up, you simply cannot go through the chicane as you would in real life. It was very noticeable as I watched real cars go through the chicane on TV. I even froze the picture on TV to compare.

    Once I increased the FOV, the distances became more realistic, the chicane became driveable.

    Try it with the chicane on Hungaroring in ACC. The chicane is way too shallow with correct FOV on a single monitor.
     
  17. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Only the correct FOV shows realistic distances, I understand that is doesn’t look like that at first but it’s because u are used to see things on smaller screens
    What was the onboard that u were comparing it to, camera position is also important in that how u see things,
    Sorry that I am writing those blocks of text and I have nothing with sb not wanting to use that FOV, but I if they say that that mathematically correct FOV isn’t mathematically correct with real distances then I just want to tell them why they are wrong
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  18. buddhatree

    buddhatree Racer

    The distances may be "mathematically correct" but the view is distorted, as explained above.
     
  19. GCCRacer

    GCCRacer Simracer

    Actually I just tested, and I might have to retract that argument... it appears to me changing the FOV in ACC doesn't act like a focal length change, I tried on Silverstone pitlane with the railings, made one at 54°, another at 25°, and then cropped the 54° shot down to the smaller area. The railings do not appear "more bunched together" in the Z-Axis.

    So the FOV just acts like a photoshop cropping tool.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    tjr, fnegroni and Maciej Malinowski like this.
  20. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    ??? It’s completely opposite, the one with high FOV is distorted because u shrink the view onto the smaller surfaces, and it’s described in videos I posted previously
     
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