Whos fault is it?

It truly amazes me that someone could look at that video and even consider that Rosberg isn't entirely at fault. Another few feet and Rosberg would have run completely off the track before beginning his turn. How far is someone allowed to go off a normal racing line and have it still be called "defending"?

 

He brakes too late, but Hamilton did too.

And, there was a DRS zone? That is the problem. How the leader can protect his position with DRS zones? I think Rosberg forced himself too much because these stupids rules.

 

No DRS zone there. After this corner the DRS zone starts untill T3.

My opinion to the "confict" here:
I don't think its a good excuse for push your opponent off track because Senna (for example) did it too.

 

Its like I said, in the case of Hamilton and Rosberg, both brake too late.

In the video you can see a example of what you do when a pilot atempt to overtake you braking too early. Let he pass, brake ate the right time, and recover the position. That is what Hamilton could be done.

He did only on Suzuka 90, and you post like he did this every race, which is not true.

 

Not me.
Also your statement and your video don't affect the Hamilton-Rosberg situation.

 

Both brake too late? Well OK.

Watching that Rosberg video, they both seem to brake at the same time with the same loss of momentum.

Pretty good, considering Nico's brakes were apparently shot.

So if they both brake too late, they both lose the same amount of speed at the same rate, how come Lewis can turn in but Nico can't?

 

Do some math. How many times Senna and Prost collide? how many times Rosberg and Hamilton collide?

You are beliving on statement made by Stewart, which wasnt true.

 

No I don't. Maybe you don't understand what I try to say here.

 

the problem with Nico is that he is to much of a good guy, he dont know how to race dirty and get away with it, like Hammilton or Verstapen.

 

I cant, most of them get removed but look at some overtake compilations but i have 3 examples, 2008 Hamilton pushing Massa out on the exit of Hockenheimring T6 (harpin) and in 2004 Imola lap 1 Michael vs Montoya.
Search them up.

EDIT: Alonso pushing out Hamilton in 2007 T1 SPA

 

I think a big problem is this misconception of any 'right' to the racing line. The only 'right' a driver ever has is for room. Being on the racing line into a corner gives you the right to room. Not to do whatever the **** you want and run somebody off the track if you wish. That is, by the rules, illegal. It is punished in junior categories more than it is in F1, and it's a huge problem. It *should* be punished far more and it's ruining a lot of good, fair racing.

As far as Senna goes, you obviously haven't seen that Senna, as much as he is praised for his skills, is also highly criticized for his 'back off or die' attitude when it came to overtaking and defending. Senna was not a great sportsman, same as Michael Schumacher afterwards. Both took winning to seriously desperate levels and would resort to pathetic acts in order to secure their positions or make passes. Using them as examples of how things should be only tells me that you seem to think the ends justify the means, which I find quite a lousy attitude.

 

Pfff, that Rosberg/Hamilton thing was really easy. There were other cases that were not so clear.
Like Vettel/Webber:

 

You seem to see professional racing as a kind of cheerful little game between posh chaps on a Sunday afternoon. Respectfully going round and round: "Oh sir, please have this line!", "Oh, why, thank you, sir, how lovely!", "Oh, it's nothing really... what nice weather, isn't it?", "Yes, indeed Sir! See you around the next lap! Ta-ta!".

I don't. It's a psychological and physical battle and the best wins. If you're below the best, you loose. It's tough, aggressive, hard, frustrating, unfair, dirty, lucky/unlucky, darwinian. The stonger survive and the weak get forgotten. This is NOT justifying any means to win, it is just a different manifesto than yours. Different way of looking at it. If you want to win you have to go for it. You don't wait that someone else gives it to you. Drivers you mentioned thought this way in principle (and sometimes they went overboard, yes), but that was their way of thinking and that is the correct way of thinking about professional racing in my view.

 

There is a difference, some think the better driver will win on ability and can do it fairly without needing any unfair advantage.

Then there is the other way, some people that know they cant beat people fairly and so think it should be down to the best cheat wins.

In my view if you cant beat someone fairly you havent actually beaten them and so have lost no matter the result.

People on the other side of that are just blatant cheats and would do anything to win. They will do everything possible if knowing they may get away with it, a proper respectable racer will do their best to be clean and fair and win on pure ability in a fair fight. If they get beaten then they got beaten by the better driver on the day and so will just try to get better next time. The cheat will just look for other ways to cheat and if you cheat and still lose then you really do suck.

 

@martcerv I'm not talking about cheating. That's a different thing, I don't care about that. I'm taking about being aggressive (legally) vs. being a... [edit] softie

 

@Rex Agressive legally would mean not driving others off the road. That means leaving racing room and passing people fairly. Doing it unfairly equals cheating so its one or the other I think.

Just because you leave room it doesnt mean you have to drive like a pussy as you put it. You dont have to concede places you still position your car into a place where you gain the spot but still leave racing room for the other car and avoid contact or forcing them off track. In defense you will also make the guy work even harder to gain a spot as your not going to give them the full track for the exit.

I would define driving people off the road as driving like a prick, those that cant do it any other way have conceded defeat already and so need to resort to dirty tactics and unfair advantages aka cheating and driving like a prick.

 

@martcerv You say "drive people off the road", but let's think about that that means. I can't really drive you off the road unless you attack hard and I leave you no room to do that. If you back off, you won't go off the road. I am not pushing you, you just want so bad to pass that you go off when you have no room. I am not going into you intentionally like in Mad Max. But you can't expect me to let you go and do nothing. You want me to also position myself nicely for slipstream for you too? Why do you think you are entitled to pass but I'm not entitled to block you?

 

It goes both ways both drivers need to give racing room driving someone off the road means you dont leave at least 1 car width to the car alongside inside the track limits. This is in a straight or a corner it really doesn't matter and its the same for the defending and attacking car, the thing I see most is the over defensive blocker who will go to inside to defend this line but then when you take the outside and are alongside they literally push you off the road. This means if you hold your line on the extreme edge of the track they will drive into you causing a collision or you need to go off the track to avoid it, in defence the guy can make his move but then must leave room on the other side but if there is already overlap on a straight you cant now block as that is driving them off the road and so you need to leave them that racing room.

In a corner if cars enter side by side then the car outside now has lost the apex and so needs to leave racing room to the apex and the car inside also needs to hold the tight apex line and leave racing room to the outside car both at the apex and all the way through to the exit if they are still overlapping. Someone zig zigging down a straight to break a draft is ok until the point of overlap and at that point they must now leave that space its not so hard a concept I think. If someone has no pace and so resorts to blatant blocking they are actually the easiest people to get past anyway as they compromise their own exits by taking inside line entries, this is where the same person then will normally try to force the other car off the track in the next straight as its the only defence they have.

There is the classic dive boomb which in a way is what Rosberg did in this example by going inside and not being able to make the apex then driving the other car off the track as he left no racing room for the outside car mid corner to even turn in let alone run him off the road at the apex which is more common. In a fair battle though it means passing isnt as easy as going inside you will need to brake enough to not miss the apex by too much and force the other guy wide and you cant power out to the maximum if the other car is still overlapping on exit.

Anyone that thinks driving fairly is driving like a pussy is most likely unable to drive clean and fair or able to control the car enough to actually race close to others and adjust their speed to be able to run side by side without contact in most corners. To run side by side you need to adjust speed and need to be able to adjust line, racing is much more then hotlapping and quite a few have no actual idea how to pass or race cleanly so think anyone that can pass without contact is a pussy. The truth is the person that drives dirty is either doing it because they don't have the speed or ability to do anything else or they are just a prick and do it on purpose.

Rosberg its hard to say, the brake issue may have had something to do with it but Hamilton has shown he can drive like a prick and has driven him off the road in the past, Rosberg just isn't used to being the prick that often so he does it in a more clumsy way and gets penalized. I think the general rule most series use of never to force another car off the track is fairly easy to understand, people can make an error and so force someone off the road or they are simply a prick and do it on purpose. Some think that's the way to do it so I wonder which one of the 2 that makes them.

 

@RedLoto Funny Wrong, but funny.