Game stock car

Just learned this: R3E is getting both Spa and the Nordschleife. The latter also done on the basis of laserscan data. I'm speechless!

Laserscanned Nordschleifes are what in the military is called "power multiplicators".

What is to be learned from this news: beware, AC - the competition does not sleep. If SP racing in AC stays what it is, above news maybe could turn me into an apostate. An AI race on a laserscanned Nordschleife in R3E - would eat AC alive, currently.

 

I always wanted to like R3E, but the cars still drive floaty.
Also tweaking and playing with all the settings didn’t improve it that much.

 

That is strange, since I repeatedly messed up beyond repair when playing around with their setups. But I absolutely agree - and already had arguments exchanged with a guy from the R3E forum - that AC leads the pack in physics. Its just that if I do not expect to get the same physics in R3E like in AC, the physics in R3E taken for themselves are extremely well-done, too, and very, very enjoyable, cons8stent, predictable. The driving of the car varies with the car you chose, obviously, but in many cars I now own the experience, the feeling to drive beats that in GSC and RF2, it is much more rewarding an enjoyable to me. And that is what counts.

When was the last time you drove R3E? It seems that since half a year or so they are releasing major upgrades every month. Yesterday, that meant the addition of 2.6 GB...

Edit:
Since you complained about a floaty feeling, this I just found in simHQ forums, from somebody who seem to follow the sim since much longer time than i do, for me it is not even a week so far:

I was not sure yesterday night whether it was real or just imagination, but I also had the feeling that the cars felt - sharper, tighter, that there was a change. That they bite the tarmac a bit more, so to speak. The DTM '92 cars also have seen physics changes.

 

hmm I said on 1st page that GSC might be best sim out there ... today I tried rF2 again (for 4th time) and bought it right away .. and man, I might reevaluate that statement .. it feel what I expect from AC to feel .. similar to GSC in many ways but more organic and progressive .. you can accually feel that you have wheels made from rubber and filled with air it snaps when it should snap, it looses is slowly when it should .. haven`t really dive too much in racing against AI but so far I`m impressed .. now give me FFB and tyres from rF2 and let me drive on AC`s Nordschleife pls but still, if you are into simracing, GSC is must have, just like Simbin bundle for that money on Steam

 

I'm not that technical with cars and i'm not quite sure what self aligning torque actually is, I base everything on common sense and common expectations of what a car should be doing on grip and while losing grip, spinning out, mostly on go kart experience, i haven't been to a race track with my car no. But ISI's way of 'telling' you what the car is doing is zero to me, and not just to me, this is well known among sim community. Once you reach the end of grip, bye bye logic and laws of physics.

It's also well known that ISI fakes and puts all kinds of stuff to the force feedback. I swear that i watched or read an interview with Stefano where he said that they only simulate the actual forces on the wheel, from the tires, from the steering rack, just like LFS does.

 

you turn your wheels, you drive, your wheels will straighten out without your input from steering wheel .. that is SAT in basics and yes, Simbin titles could have more pronounced G Forces if you want (and by default) .. to substitue forces you can`t feel in sim ... it is different approach, not necesarry worst .. less realistic in terms of forces applying on steering wheel but more informative .. good thing is you cen set it up how you want .. how much of rear tires, how much of body mass transfer you wanna fell in FFB, how progressively loosing traction feels, how much friction you wanna have ... something i`m really missing in AC ( mostly to eliminate that damn centering spring ) ..

 

Hi St3fan
Don't know if this is mentioned earlier in this thread but make sure steering help is set to off (F1 key). Long time ago I struggled with the steering response just like you, probably touched that F1 key by accident. I don't have the g27 but I think you need to set the ffb strenght to negative.

 

I guess I try it approximately once a month, the last time must be around the time the DTM 92 pack came out.
Those cars felt nice to drive, however they also felt quite floaty like nearly all other cars in R3E.

That sounds good! And once again, I will give it a try. Hope dies last.

 

My god I just downloaded cart extreme mod and had a blast racing the ai at mugello...this mod is worth buying gsc alone...sure the graphics are not as good as ac and there's no Ferrari f40 but who cares when racing is this much fun..stop being a graphics whore and buy gsc

 

That's what exactly rF2 does (and GSCE) too.

 

It happens. No worries, I used to think the same thing as you... I remember asking in the GTPlanet forums once how to turn off the "automatic countersteer" in GT4

 

What is the max. amount of cars at the same time that R3E and GSCE support?

 

so far the choices i could make when setting up a race, was a max of 24. AI car park gets chosen automatically, depending on the car you have chosen for yourself (pack- and series restrictions). How that is done in MP, I do not know, I am so far exclusively SP. Skins the player has not bought, only cannot be used for his own car, but are used for AI cars. The game downloads ALL cars, skins and tracks when installing it, but only the bought content from that is accessible for actually being driven by the player.

I have just customized my first season (works well that feature), and driven practice in an Audi from 1992. That thing feels different since the update yesterday, I had used the Audi a lot in the days before. Smoother, more stabile.

AC needs such a customizable season. It's a must have, now that I see it in action. The way of customzing it, is solved quite elegantly in R3E, I would wish for just some more options, when it gets done in AC (hopefully). I would for example like to be able to define myself how many points what ranks will get at the end of the race. To chase for points over several races and see your name in that list climbing up or falling down, is much of what longterm motivation and immersion is about. - But of course, replacing (yes, thats what I think about it now: replacing) the AI, goes first, however. It seems R3E system uses much shorter tracking distances, of some kind. In race while driving, you do not realise it, but in replay you see that the AI cars all do a >>very mild<< "zig-zagging in turns all the time, much more frequent than you see that in AC, if you see it in AC at all. Think of that zigzagging what you want, in the end it delivers a much, much more convincing result. R3E also has an adaptive AI level. When using training, qualifying and races at severla minutes minimum length, the AI will learn over severl races to adapt itself to your own driving skill and line. That takes some time, but seems to be a clever method working for most players. It is said to not work too well for players who really drive extremely fast around the track (=Aliens). But that maybe is becasue the preconditions for this system working best are not fully understood. However, another hint towards AC what could be done.

SimBin always has delivered at least decent AIs, it seems, sometimes really good ones, and Sector-3, made of only 13 people, seems to mainly consist of former SimBin employees, so they really have a huge advantage over Kunos team regarding programming an AI. The clever thing to do for Kunos would be to learn from their example. I do not criticise Kunos for not being up to Sector-3'S level here, its the first time Kunos tries itself on an AI, right? But obviously they are paying schooling money currently. And even when they one day manage to create a "perfect" AI, the next challenge would be to make it appear as less perfect, and more humane, without exaggerating it: and again Sector-§ takes the lead on that, currently. I have now seen the AI messing things up in a way that clearly were no AI deficits nd malfunctions,l but looked like something done by an imperfect human driver. Wowh!

 

So @ the guys complaining about that fake SAT: Have you checked the new cars in AC? They're supposed to have less of it and I feel that. I drove the Corvette a lot and there was no strong SAT. Actually, all cars should have less SAT after DLC but I can't confirm...at least the BMW and Ferrari GT2 seem to feel like before.

 

I hate games that do this for a few reasons
1) there's no way it's going to simulate realistic forces - that possibility is gone unless I, personally, own and have raced the exact car and am also an expert on what all the sliders mean. It says to me 'the creators don't know and don't care what this car actually feels like to drive'.
2) if I complain about any aspect of the FFB, fanboys will say I just need to adjust the settings.
For me, I'd rather get rid of even AC's individual car multipliers. One overall multiplier to prevent clipping, one minimum force to handle the wheel's characteristics, that is all I want to configure.


Same goes for GSC's setting steering wheel lock manually - it's possible to get a realistic lock in this case because at least this data is documented, but the user experience is "you don't know how this car works, we don't know how this car works, just make something up and see if you like it"

 

Things that happened with me in GSC, in fifth gear I spin the V12 F1 car at the Interlagos. This is a thing that really happen in these cars?

Its easy to me drive the 1986 Lotus 98t in Assetto Corsa, even with the turbo preassure 100%, I can predict the turbo lag, but on GSC, I simply put the gas, appears that I have the grip and instantanily the car spin in a way I cant correctly the car.

 

Yes, i also feel they have less SAT, except the 190E and one more which i cant recall right now.

 

SAT is till pretty high in DLC cars.
I have run rFactor 2 demo and it makes obvious how strong SAT is in AC. In rFactor 2 overall forces are quite high (for example stationary with open wheelers), however as the speed increases there is very low increase in the spring force (which is trying to align the wheel).
At first driving felt much harder in rFactor2 (regarding optimum grip feel over FFB). While in AC you just turn the wheel and you instantly can tell where is limit of the tyre grip while in rFactor 2 you kind of become hyper sensitive to this force and consumed with immersion of trying to balance/find the max grip with fast/small movements (however this comes only after some practice, because at start it gives WTF impression after switching from AC).

 

AC is the first driving sim I've used where I didn't have to spend a week tweaking .cfg file and searching for 'doomsayers FFB' profile or whatever...

It works out of the box, OK with a couple of minutes tweaking the overall gain, and that's a serious plus for Kunos imo.

 

SAT is not physics-adjustable, it's calculated inside the physics engine, so it's the same for every car, DLC included. Motec telemetry also confirms it. Differences might be due to caster etc.