Brake pressure/sensitivity needed!

From my experience with G27 pedals I struggle with every game (rF2, AC, GSC, rF1 ) with brake locking up with open wheel cars. In 5+ laps around spa with Abarth impossible not to lock it up at hairpins without huge luck and concentration.

I have easier time with road cars on all games, gonna have to do comparison with AC road car and rF2 road car.

Just opened up rf2 .ini file and street cars have
BrakeTorque=2100.0 // maximum brake torque at zero wear and optimum temp

That seems inline with AC values doesn't it? mclarenf1papa?

 

CSR standards here. I've been reading through this thread and it seems G27 pedals work quite good in comparison (based of what i read in some comments at least). It's quite logical that people experience big differences based on the peripherals they use, same with wheels really, so i guess our pedals are not the best for use with AC.

Hence why i think it would be a good thing if additional options would be made available for tuning those defects out (like a brake pressure slider), as brake gamma simply doesn't cut it for us.

When i have the chance i'll test this out some more this weekend, see how much travel i can really apply (as 50% is just my estimate at the moment), if its really all the cars or some work better, how are the abs settings and how does brake gamma influence it. Like i said i was playing R3R lately and then you really notice how much more you can apply the brakes in comparison, same with AMS.

 

Second that, CSP v3, load cell at max sensitivity, getting to 100% is quite a footwork, still with some cars like X-Bow, I definitely need to relearn pressure applied. I am using gamma 1.0 as recommended for load celled pedals.
Not something one cannot relearn, pressure based modulation is quite easy, it's just inconsistency that needs some time for adjustment and developing new muscle memory.

 

G25 pedals.

With gamma set about half way and the tyres warmish I don't have a locking issue unless I press the pedal quite hard. With some of the older cars I actually find that the brakes will barely lock. The only time I have a locking issue is if I forget to initialize my pedals by pressing them after I've started the game but before I click drive to go in car. If I fail to press them before I enter the car I get what seems like 100% braking with hardly any pedal travel.

Maybe there could be a press your pedals warning box before you enter the car?

I'm all for more options but I really want to be convinced that this isn't going to turn into an exploit, some sort of ABS for cars that don't have it. If you watch race series with cars without ABS then you constantly see small lock ups and occaisionally tyre destroying big ones (Rosberg Sochi) If it's standard practice to set the drivers brakes to threshold at 100% braking (whatever that is in the real world) then why do you still see pro drivers locking wheels so often?

 

The Ferrari 458 at the moment has the torque I'm using for LMP1 carbon race brakes...

A normal road car in AC has about 150% of that 2100 number.

 

I only get that after I unplug my DFGT, I think it's down to how the wheel calibrates the pedals on plugin.

 

With road cars the brakes should be strong enough for getting into a constand lockup area when you brake hard. This would serve the purpose of the ABS being able to do its job and perform the maximum possible decceleration while maintaining steerability. If you are on the border to the lock zone, the ABS can´t work properly as it is a cycle based controller, that needs the high pressure as input and than pumps the fluid back to keep the pressure near the optimum point.

So in my opinion, I clearly see the reason to work on a pressure limiter in the setup for race cars that feature this system in real life, while using it with road cars hardly makes sense to me. I think most of these cars use ABS, and therefor should be used in AC with ABS to produce a proper simulation. The wheel setup gamma is allready a big enhancement, but that one is needed to adjust for different pedals, I see that. Personally I made the best experience with a gamma of 1, but I have modded my G25 pedals with a piece of an old eraser that I cut to fit in to simulate the pressure point (Comes in at over 90% travel, I guess. It´s a 5 minute and 50 cent mod, so maybe give it a try if you have problems with braking). The road cars that don´t feature ABS are a bit tricky, but I hardly get lockups while driving. That is with safe and slightly conservative braking, though. Those are old road cars and no GT2s.

Which race car classes do actually use these systems? GT2/GTE? Well, LMP would make sense, Open wheelers?

 

Ah okay.



.............................................................
speaking of brakes this video is pretty cool.

braking without abs modern road car.

seemed super easy and instant lock up.

fast forward to 1:47 of video.

 

Great video. Should be stickied somewhere Thanks.

 

You only do it once, after reboot or disconnecting pedals, no reason to do it every time you "enter the car".

 

I un-plug and store my wheel between each session so it's pretty much every time for me.

I've had issues with it so I do the press pedals thing every time I start the game. Call it calibration OCD

 

I have t500 pedals and I have no problems as you describe. So definately load cell brake is not needed to brake properly in this game.

 

Car setups can make a huge different in braking distance and how easily they lock up. And I mean real setup work, not just little here and there, but total overhaul. Because default setups are generally pretty bad.

 

True, the lower and the stiffer the front, the sooner the front whells will lock up. The same should go for the rear. So changing the point in the pedal travel where the wheels will lock is a complex matter. If one has a high car with a very soft suspension, it still needs to be able to lock the tires.

 

I think the brake torque for AC cars is right, look at the video some post ago... You have to consider that you may want to brake the car from its maximum speed in a resonable space so you need all that torque. I had the problem of locking up but I resolved it playing with Gamma value for brake pedal. Different people + different pedals = need to change that gamma.
Btw, it's interesting to see that automatic brake bias exists yet on AC, this could improve further the braking simulation.
It is present since many years, why is not used on AC cars?

 

Yes, that amount of brake torque makes sense in a car with ABS for it to work properly. The question is, do cars without ABS or generally older cars have that much brake torque so that they will always be able to lock up all wheels.

 

Yes, and for the same reason. By the way, myself experience, even the FIAT 500L is able to lock up the wheels on asphalt
There is a factor that is missing in here and that's the heat. We are actually working with pretty ideal brakes that can always do their best...
In real life there is an operative temperature range, this is the reason why you cannot imagine a real old car locking up in that way...

 

The FIAT is a mod car though?

No disrespect to the modder but the brake values could be anything.

 

No no, FIAT 500 is a real example. I drove it and it locks up
So I can say that those brake torques make sense to me. You can try an high speed braking (200-0) with AccelTest app and check the results with the relative values from some magazines. You will find that some cars in the game are still braking with less power than real ones (Miura if I remember well...)

 

And I can say that a brake package on a normal road car does not produce as much torque as high-tech carbon racing brakes.