netKar PRO versus AC

I don't know about superior but I like it more. But I agree that whether they decided to build a new tire model or expand on the existing one that when they released it for general consumption it would be at least as good as the previous (in this case NetKar's tire model). Currently I find it just different, and though it is good... the whole package is not as good as the driving experience of NetKar Pro (of course in my opinion). The graphics are prettier... but the sense of speed, and feel to me are not as good. I feel much better connected to NKP.

But I will admit... my interest in AC is waning... though I still come to the site to see what is going on... I am not playing the game. I have been on once in 3 or 4 weeks and it was for less than 20 minutes. With all this hype by the publisher's about gifts that never appeared, it has really dulled my enthusiasm to the point now I don't care. A really sad statement for a title I was so excited about. Regardless I still enjoy driving NKP and will be racing with friends again on a regular basis starting later this week.

And I agree... just because it is new does not make it better. Most of the time version 2.0 does not live up to the original.

 

It seems you don't have Netkar. How can you make a comparison without experience with Netkar?

 

?? Do I need to screenshot my desktop to prove it?

 

No, I just thought you don't have it because of your last sentecne but maybe I misunderstood it:

 

I'm even more confused now...I'm showing several servers (one with 5 people in it) on-line right now

 

Still is an early stage to make some final conclusion with AC but right now i feel Netkar Pro tire model has more depth, it transmit very well these mini slip,slides, it is quite more sensible on the limits with your technique steer/trhottle/brake inputs... In AC i just get some slide, then i correct, grip,grip, some overster there,correct, and so on.. and i feel it so forgiving, much more than NK Pro.

Its like the tire need massive chargues on rear tires to get some lost of grip, and once time u overpass this point u get a ride of slide, but still can't feel these mini slips , dancing with the car trhought my sensitive inputs.

I did notice some strange behaviours in AC, dont know if dumbed down or not, but they are quite clear to me, some examples like how car regain grip or the revs bouncing and cutting even with an high slip angle and full trhottle, like if there was some hidden TC, in overall there are some things/issues clear to me.

In others words, limits of tire in AC seems like pass 1(grip) to 2(slide), while Netkapro offers me 1 to 6 (mini corrections,slides,slips,etc)
Dont know how to explain 100% but certainly NK pro seems much more simulator to me, even if i tought AC is superior in some aspects.

I read a post in twitter from Aris about he's working in a new upgrade for the tire model in the update 0.5? Could be interesting if they do some similar improvement like they did in update 0.3 ( after this update game feel so better and a 100% fordward step in the right way) but still there some work to accomplish i think.

Lets see if 0.5 , put another smile in my face.

 

WOW, it's like you went inside my brain and explained everything I was thinking, EXACTLY PERFECTLY.

I feel EXACTLY 100% the same as you, and that's why Assetto Corsa's physics, to me, still feel like a "video-game" but with some very nice sim qualities incorporated into it, while Netkar Pro (and some other sims in the market) feel like proper "true-sims".

Your entire post is so accurate to how I think it's almost scary...

- The way the cars on the limit in AC are much more basic in their actions/reactions based on your throttle/brake/steering inputs relative to Nerkar Pro (and other sims)

- The way there seems to be a layer of very over-exaggerated forgiveness built into the core Assetto Corsa driving physics model (regardless of car)

-The thing you said about AC lacking the physics depth and fidelity of managing all those tiny and sensitive little micro-slides that depend so much on your techniques. How, in Netkar Pro (and other sims) all those tiny little micro-slides come and go so dynamically based on your steering/throttle/braking inputs.

- How in the core Assetto Corsa physics it's almost always the same sort of repetative basic/bland "stage 1- pass the tyre grip limit, stage 2 - slide car, stage 3 - correct car", where as in Netkar Pro, other sims, and in real-life it's more like stage 1- 6 with tons of different little variations and micro-slides, micro-steering corrections, micro-steering movements, micro-drifts, and all those can change so dynamically, happen, or not happen at all depending on each driver's tiny sensitive differences in steering/throttle/brake inputs and overall technique

- In Assetto Corsa it's just a bunch of grip, and then once you cross a line you always get the same repeatable soft and linear slide, you correct, and then you continue on, where as in Netkar Pro, other sims, and in real-life, you are, as you said, always managing so many different types of tiny micro-slides that are always different and so dynamic (eg. bigger slides, some small, some tiny, some are snappy, some are gentle, some are linear, some aren't linear as they start slow but then can get quicker and snappier depending on what you do with your inputs, or the other way around as well where you start with an initial almost unexpected quick snap but then once you react with enough precision and reaction, if you can, then the rest of the slide is nice and linear and controllable). Just so much more definition and dynamic variances in Netkar Pro, other sims, and real-life when you are approaching/reaching/going over the tyre limits.

It's like there is a layer of filtration, and over-forgiveness in the core AC physics relative to Netkar Pro, other sims, and in my real-life experience (F1600, different F2000s, 2 day test of a 450-ish HP open-cockpit prototype style car) as well.

Think of it this way......Think of a horizontal line graph......It's like in real-life, Netkar Pro, and other sims it's a horizontal line with tons of variances in it's peaks, dips, sharpness, smoothness, vertical direction changes, etc. etx. where as in Assetto Corsa the horizontal line graph is much smoother, with MUCH less variance, with the lowest lows, as well as the highest highs all missing and/or smoothed out, and the sharp vertical direction changes are all softened and smoothed out as well, the graph just overall has much less "definition" and variability across it's points and micro-points. It's as if the graph went through some massive filtration stage/had some sort of massive filter option applied to it across it's entire range.

I could explain this so much better with an actual picture of a graph, maybe i'll do that.

 

The odd thing I notice a lot when reading people talking about physics in AC versus NKP is the gap of this being in alpha; and from my understanding isn't optimized yet, doesn't have low speed physics in place yet, and a bunch of other missing items at this point. While it's a great conversation, especially hearing from people who have spent a lot of time in various sims like iRacing, NKP etc, it just mystifies me how some are so adamant about how "game like" a non-finished simulator feels. I will reserve judgement on how I feel about AC once version 1.0 gets here and the physics engine is somewhat completed/tuned. As of right now I agree with a lot of people's assessments of how unnatural it feels versus the very little real world experience I've had in a real race car.

On topic - the simulator does feel a bit more forgiving in some areas than from what I've seen from other games/simulators and not in other areas. For instance I've been playing around with drifting, never done much of it other than in games, and it seems incredibly difficult to master the timing and wheel/pedal inputs. At times the tires seem to slip perfectly and others it's too grippy. But I can't comment how how real it feels because I've never been behind a drift car's wheel. But I can comment on how I *think it should feel. Which is what I *think the majority is doing here. One persons preference and belief to how things feel isn't always, and most often not, correct and true to life. The best they can do is build an engine that comes as close to possible to the real forces in play.

Time will tell, I trust the devs and their opinions on the physics. They more than likely have more data points than I do - or will ever have, and don't confuse what I'm saying, I'm not trying to defend the simulator - it's just my opinion on reading this thread for the past couple of days and from some of the input I've seen across the various boards.

 

Would have to agree here with how you guys describe the physics, i wonder at what state the physics currently are.

 

As the thread title is NKP vs. AC, I will assume the complete question is: Which one you prefer?
I was expecting to like AC better than NKP in terms of driving experience, better physic and better FFB, and that is what I got with AC.
The type of cars, the graphics, the tracks is the icing on the cake for me.
All I am interested in is: How is the driving experience like? Closer or not to my real life experience.
AC is definitely a step in the right direction. NKP was the best for me until now.
When I realize that it is still in Early Access, so most likely still going to get better, I can only smile and wait for my satisfaction to be even more!

 

I agree @Cote Dazur
Hopefully you won't think of me as forum police or a stalker for responding to your post......or do those things only apply if you disagree with someone?

 

In my mind, I think that AC is (and will be) more nuanced than NKP. But hey I am just glad AC lets me view a replay over 30fps.

 

I don't know about the numbers etc and data. but i know about what i feel racing ac and netkar to me nkpro feels much more realistic to me, more connected, obviously i hope till AC version 1. come closer and beyong netkar pro ffb feeling.

But obvoiously the cars are diferent, in nkpro it's about racing cars, in Ac it's more about driving cars on tracks. i wish Ac was more like netkar pro.

 

The FFB of netkar is more direct. Stop. AC have much and more brilliant FFB and physics.